Before we get started I must read the:

Gabbers disclaimer: (eventually I will memorize this but for now I will read it)

This is a discussion show of subjects, topics, and/or issues found in our day to day lives

  • This show is not a debate and is to be held with a decorum of good taste and propriety.

You’ve all been asked here because you can hold your own in any discussion, you are very opinionated and basically you have the gift of gab!

  • That being said, please do not gab too much.

    • Your point of view can be expressed in 5 to 10 minutes.

Once everyone has had their turn to gab

  • We’ll turn it over to group discussion

I encourage a difference of opinion from our gabbers.

  • You know if everybody agrees on everything then it becomes a boring world.

If you have a difference of opinion from another guest, please present it with kindness and respect for each person.

  • Usually what we think is a difference of opinion turns out to be more of a difference of perspective.

Would you die for a cause? What cause?

Why do people die fighting for a cause?

What causes?

Country?

Religion?

World peace?

For our study, the noun ‘cause’ defines as a /

1. a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition.

2. a principle, aim, or movement that, because of a deep commitment, one is prepared to defend or advocate.

 

When I think of dying for a cause, suicide bombers cross my mind. I was quite surprised to find this article.

Interview in sciencemag.org by Matthew Hutson

  • To beat your enemies, you must understand them intimately. And so anthropologist Scott Atran and his colleagues have spent the last 2 years interviewing Islamic State group fighters and their opponents on the front lines

  • They also conducted online surveys with thousands of Spanish and European citizens

  •  / director of research at Artis International, a research institute based in Scottsdale, Arizona, and his research team personally talked with extremists in the field

Q: What makes someone willing to die fighting for a cause?

A: Well, lots of things, but what best predicted willingness to die on the battlefront was both devotion to a tight-knit group of comrades—fusion with them—and commitment to sacred values. But the values actually trumped the group, which may be the first time that was shown. Because most of the military sociology and psychology, at least since World War II, has said that will to fight is based on camaraderie and fighting for your buddies.

In September 2014, then President Obama’s national security director, Keith Alexander, said the greatest mistake the U.S. made in Iraq was underestimating ISIS’s will to fight, and he said it was similar in Vietnam.

The Islamic person Atran interviewed said that sacred values trumped devotion to a tight-knit group of comrades. He then asked,

Q: What are sacred values?

A: They are moral values. We’ve shown in lots of different contexts that sacred values are immune or resistant to material trade-offs. You wouldn’t sell your children or sell out your country or your religion for any amount of money, but you would die for all.

 

Hutson asked Atran a couple of questions based on his overall findings:

Q: Is any one of us capable of dying for a cause?

A: Human beings are inspired by belief in apparently absurd things. Religion or transcendental ideologies, for example…

Think of the origins of the monotheistic religions. Abraham is ready to slit his son’s throat. 

 

Q: You found that devotion to a cause also intimidates opponents.

A: Oh, yes. When one group perceives the enemy as committed, they are even less likely to make sacrifices for their values. It has a paralysis effect. Of the almost 7000 Europeans we surveyed, a very small number behaved quite the opposite: The more they perceived the Islamic State as spiritually committed, the more they themselves became spiritually committed.

 

I find it interesting he didn’t interview American soldiers. I wonder why?

 

I'm a movie buff. Watching probably a million people die in movies, I'm probably hardened to myself dying. I would die for my daughter, grandchildren, wife, son in law so on and so forth - but I don't want to die.

Can anybody say they would die for a cause until they get there? 

Who’s got the guts to start?

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